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	<title>Comments on: Philosophy: Fun With Debate Answers!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?feed=rss2&#038;p=1056" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056</link>
	<description>Serious Frivolity-laden Thoughts.</description>
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		<title>By: metric reflection &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bow to the Middle</title>
		<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056&#038;cpage=1#comment-35397</link>
		<dc:creator>metric reflection &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bow to the Middle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 04:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056#comment-35397</guid>
		<description>[...] politics of our two candidates, or the substance of their arguments (though my roommate has a great dissection of one question in the last debate that I&#8217;ve been meaning to commend him for), but rather in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] politics of our two candidates, or the substance of their arguments (though my roommate has a great dissection of one question in the last debate that I&#8217;ve been meaning to commend him for), but rather in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056&#038;cpage=1#comment-35264</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056#comment-35264</guid>
		<description>Very well stated.  Thank you.

I watched the debates and was so annoyed with they way both pretty much avoided answering any questions.  

In addition, I have to say if I hear McCain call me (or anyone) &quot;friend&quot; again I will lose it.  He&#039;s not my friend.  He&#039;s a government politician and should act as such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well stated.  Thank you.</p>
<p>I watched the debates and was so annoyed with they way both pretty much avoided answering any questions.  </p>
<p>In addition, I have to say if I hear McCain call me (or anyone) &#8220;friend&#8221; again I will lose it.  He&#8217;s not my friend.  He&#8217;s a government politician and should act as such.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056&#038;cpage=1#comment-35252</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 13:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056#comment-35252</guid>
		<description>Well I wouldn&#039;t say I come up short-remember this is ONE lesson in the class-not the whole class at all.  We do eventually cover researching evidence and factual data to support our arguments but that&#039;s only part of a good analysis.  You can start a good analysis by dealing with an argument on it&#039;s face at first-essentially saying &quot;assuming all of this is true&quot; at first, dealing with the argument and THEN going back and discrediting premises as factually untrue or not. 

So that point is well taken-your dig at Obama and use of &quot;quotes&quot; less so-but still I appreciate the comments.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I wouldn&#8217;t say I come up short-remember this is ONE lesson in the class-not the whole class at all.  We do eventually cover researching evidence and factual data to support our arguments but that&#8217;s only part of a good analysis.  You can start a good analysis by dealing with an argument on it&#8217;s face at first-essentially saying &#8220;assuming all of this is true&#8221; at first, dealing with the argument and THEN going back and discrediting premises as factually untrue or not. </p>
<p>So that point is well taken-your dig at Obama and use of &#8220;quotes&#8221; less so-but still I appreciate the comments.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: sambo</title>
		<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056&#038;cpage=1#comment-35190</link>
		<dc:creator>sambo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 04:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056#comment-35190</guid>
		<description>It seems you would like for your students to be involved in the real world. That&#039;s commendable.
You come up short in that time would be better spent doing &quot;Real&quot; investigative work on the candidates. Obama in a die hard socialist. We are known by who we associate with and spend our time. You would be doing your students a favor to teach them to learn the &quot;facts&quot; before making decisions. When they reach the &quot;real world&quot; they need to know how to investigate the &quot;real facts&quot; in order to make a &quot;real decision&quot; in all facets of their life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems you would like for your students to be involved in the real world. That&#8217;s commendable.<br />
You come up short in that time would be better spent doing &#8220;Real&#8221; investigative work on the candidates. Obama in a die hard socialist. We are known by who we associate with and spend our time. You would be doing your students a favor to teach them to learn the &#8220;facts&#8221; before making decisions. When they reach the &#8220;real world&#8221; they need to know how to investigate the &#8220;real facts&#8221; in order to make a &#8220;real decision&#8221; in all facets of their life.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056&#038;cpage=1#comment-35122</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056#comment-35122</guid>
		<description>Oh, I&#039;m in complete agreement that they are doing what they are &quot;supposed to&quot; be doing-what will win them the presidency.  That in no way means that I find it satisfactory.  Just because this constitutes &quot;the real world&quot; way of things are done in reality doesn&#039;t mean that it is ideal (in fact it usually guarantees it isn&#039;t) and doesn&#039;t mean I have to be okay with it. 

Your point, in fact, goes to my larger problem-that there is something fundamentally wrong with how our democracy works in a televised media state.  (See this post about “Amusing Ourselves to Death”)  That we&#039;ve worked ourselves into a view that says &quot;because this works, it&#039;s okay.&quot;  The ends justifying the means has never worked out well in the end-and I don&#039;t think it does here either.

People are used to, and want, the &quot;rhetoric plus code words&quot; because it creates a sense of warm fuzzy that persuades them-that doesn&#039;t mean it makes any sense.  

And just because Senator Obama could make these arguments (and I have no doubt that Senator McCain would as well-or at least they would have people who could help) doesn&#039;t mean that they did, or will.  

And yes-teaching at a women&#039;s college I am keenly aware that Senators McCain and Obama are not in my class.  Even still-that doen&#039;t mean that we as concerned citizens can&#039;t ask questions and pick apart what they say.  The parameters for judging these two candidates is not limited to what we learned in Poli Sci and/or Com classes. 

-And it certainly still is a great example of what NOT to do in my class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I&#8217;m in complete agreement that they are doing what they are &#8220;supposed to&#8221; be doing-what will win them the presidency.  That in no way means that I find it satisfactory.  Just because this constitutes &#8220;the real world&#8221; way of things are done in reality doesn&#8217;t mean that it is ideal (in fact it usually guarantees it isn&#8217;t) and doesn&#8217;t mean I have to be okay with it. </p>
<p>Your point, in fact, goes to my larger problem-that there is something fundamentally wrong with how our democracy works in a televised media state.  (See this post about “Amusing Ourselves to Death”)  That we&#8217;ve worked ourselves into a view that says &#8220;because this works, it&#8217;s okay.&#8221;  The ends justifying the means has never worked out well in the end-and I don&#8217;t think it does here either.</p>
<p>People are used to, and want, the &#8220;rhetoric plus code words&#8221; because it creates a sense of warm fuzzy that persuades them-that doesn&#8217;t mean it makes any sense.  </p>
<p>And just because Senator Obama could make these arguments (and I have no doubt that Senator McCain would as well-or at least they would have people who could help) doesn&#8217;t mean that they did, or will.  </p>
<p>And yes-teaching at a women&#8217;s college I am keenly aware that Senators McCain and Obama are not in my class.  Even still-that doen&#8217;t mean that we as concerned citizens can&#8217;t ask questions and pick apart what they say.  The parameters for judging these two candidates is not limited to what we learned in Poli Sci and/or Com classes. </p>
<p>-And it certainly still is a great example of what NOT to do in my class.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056&#038;cpage=1#comment-35121</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 14:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056#comment-35121</guid>
		<description>Good logic critique, but the candidates didn&#039;t sign up for your class, and they rightfully aren&#039;t competing for high marks on your choice of evaluation criteria. 

Their goal is persuasion. And if you step across the hall to a Com 101 class, you&#039;ll find that the first tactic in accomplishing that is knowing your audience. 

Do you believe that a clear, detailed response to these complex policy questions would be the best strategy for persuading undecided voters? I don&#039;t, and audience response polling supports that hunch. It&#039;s the sad reality of the effectiveness of otherwise empty rhetoric linked to loved code words and national myths and narratives.

I can&#039;t speak to McCain&#039;s background, but considering Obama&#039;s legal training and later years teaching constitutional law, I think it&#039;s a safe assumption that he can put together the direct, logical and evidence-supported arguments you are asking for. But he&#039;s not enrolled in your class; he&#039;s running for president, and evaluating his answers based on your standards is about as off base as me walking into your classroom and basing your teaching evaluation on your choice (or not) of stylish wardrobe. 

Want to evaluate this on the goals of his assignment: track resulting shifts in the polls  of undecided likely voters. Otherwise, you&#039;re just adding support to the pernicious notion of academics being disconnected from the &quot;real world.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good logic critique, but the candidates didn&#8217;t sign up for your class, and they rightfully aren&#8217;t competing for high marks on your choice of evaluation criteria. </p>
<p>Their goal is persuasion. And if you step across the hall to a Com 101 class, you&#8217;ll find that the first tactic in accomplishing that is knowing your audience. </p>
<p>Do you believe that a clear, detailed response to these complex policy questions would be the best strategy for persuading undecided voters? I don&#8217;t, and audience response polling supports that hunch. It&#8217;s the sad reality of the effectiveness of otherwise empty rhetoric linked to loved code words and national myths and narratives.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t speak to McCain&#8217;s background, but considering Obama&#8217;s legal training and later years teaching constitutional law, I think it&#8217;s a safe assumption that he can put together the direct, logical and evidence-supported arguments you are asking for. But he&#8217;s not enrolled in your class; he&#8217;s running for president, and evaluating his answers based on your standards is about as off base as me walking into your classroom and basing your teaching evaluation on your choice (or not) of stylish wardrobe. </p>
<p>Want to evaluate this on the goals of his assignment: track resulting shifts in the polls  of undecided likely voters. Otherwise, you&#8217;re just adding support to the pernicious notion of academics being disconnected from the &#8220;real world.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: DCBlogs &#187; DC Blogs Noted</title>
		<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056&#038;cpage=1#comment-35102</link>
		<dc:creator>DCBlogs &#187; DC Blogs Noted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 04:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056#comment-35102</guid>
		<description>[...] Fun (by which I mean a classroom lecture) for both sides of the aisle. Professor Soft Lounge Blog red-lines and ummm blue-lines the most recent presidential debate. I particularly like the appropos colors.  Philosophy: Fun With Debate Answers! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Fun (by which I mean a classroom lecture) for both sides of the aisle. Professor Soft Lounge Blog red-lines and ummm blue-lines the most recent presidential debate. I particularly like the appropos colors.  Philosophy: Fun With Debate Answers! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056&#038;cpage=1#comment-35094</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 23:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056#comment-35094</guid>
		<description>Gotta get noticed some how :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gotta get noticed some how <img src='http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: washwords</title>
		<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056&#038;cpage=1#comment-35093</link>
		<dc:creator>washwords</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 22:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056#comment-35093</guid>
		<description>umm, if I comment, I don&#039;t get graded do I? very funny stuff, Prof. SoftLounge. I particularly like the colors of the edits (and your blatant self-promotion too, which, you know, I always like).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>umm, if I comment, I don&#8217;t get graded do I? very funny stuff, Prof. SoftLounge. I particularly like the colors of the edits (and your blatant self-promotion too, which, you know, I always like).</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056&#038;cpage=1#comment-35085</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 20:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/?p=1056#comment-35085</guid>
		<description>You sir, get an A.  Kissing my ass will get you everywhere :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You sir, get an A.  Kissing my ass will get you everywhere <img src='http://thesoftlounge.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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